Cameron's Links
Cameron,
President Al Gore could have been a great president, but we will probably never know.
Let's not forget that at the very beginning, George's legitimacy as a president was very arguable, not to say more.
Then, back in 2001, 9/11 happened several monthes after his duty started ...
Which led to a legal war in Afghanistan, backed by UN ... and another war in Iraq two years later.
You might want to read ( again ) Dominique de Villepin's speech at UN before US decided alone to invade Irak.
The huge majority in this room applauded with both hands, except Colin Powell who was livid. And we all know what was next : since there was no way for US to get any blessing from UN to start a (new) war in Irak. So Bush did not even care of asking other countries to vote, and invaded Irak.
Does this make this war an illegal one, well ...
For sure, while US army was stuck in Iraq, North Korea developed its own nuke, and some suspect Iran did too.
George made US administration one of the most hated in the world, and his war made him lose all his credibility in the Middle East.
I am also more than surprised you did not mention what ( still ) happens now in Guantanamo ...
As far as i am concerned,i not mind Jack Bauer torturing terrorists in a TV show, but when it comes to reality, i cannot agree with these methods.
George was good enough to convince most US citizens to give up their rights ( i mean patrioct act, wiretapping or laptop searches in airports ... )
Then, having been on charge for almost 8 years, subprime crisis happened ... and then a financial crisis ... and now a global economical crisis.
Yes, George did a lot for Africa, and for that, he should get more credit.
Will History prove you ( well, me, George, ... ) right or wrong ? Like he said :
"History, we don't know, we'll all be dead"
Posted by Gilles at December 6, 2008 2:27 AMGilles,
Good to hear from you and thanks for your post. Let me start by saying that we all know Europeans and Americans have some fundamental cultural differences. Europe sees the US as a bunch of warmongering cowboys and a lot of Americans see Europeans (and the UN) as unwilling or unable to put up a fight when it's needed. With this context, the two sides often come to different conclusions given the same information. I happen to be an American as you well know :).
Anyway, I read through Villepin's speech, the Wikipedia article over UNSC Resolution 1441 and skimmed over the full text of the resolution. And, as I mentioned in my main post, there are enough gray areas that you can't call the US's approach illegal. In hindsight, I'd say war was too hasty a decision, but that's irrelevant here.
The fact is, Iraq was not fully forthcoming, and even Hans Blix said as much at the meeting where Mr. Villepin spoke. The US had authority to take matters into its own hands if the UNSC was unwilling to move forward and France said they would veto any further action. That was deemed by the US as a sign that the UNSC was unwilling to move forward and therefore it took it upon itself to enforce the "serious consequences" laid out in the resolution.
The Europeans said the inspections were producing some results and needed more time. The US implied it was the same old delay tactic and nothing substantial would come. The problem is, both were right, given their characteristic mentalities.
Now, regarding Americans giving up their rights, I would say that the US has definitely become more of a police state, which I hate. I've mentioned that to some extent in past posts. I also think that a smart terrorist could still get through and that many of the security restrictions are a façade. Unfortunately, in these blame-happy times, I don't know if Bush has an option. If something were to happen and he wasn't doing everything he could to stop it, he'd be grilled. It's an example of "Damned if you do; damned if you don't." I for one would rather take more risks than live in a police state. On the other hand, Bush gets a point or two for the fact that there has not been another major attack on American soil.
On financial issues, I really feel that you can't blame the presidency for most things - the economy is too global and is really it's own beast.
Now, with Guantanamo, I'm glad you brought it up. It is much more of a hot point for people outside the US than for most here. I am not in favor of closing it, but I do feel that it is not right to hold people for years without charging them with a crime. I think every prisoner there should be tried or released in a reasonable time frame. Although, I do think the conditions there are often better than in their own countries - minus the interrogations. Regarding those tactics, I have some mixed views. I don't condone torture, but what Amnesty International calls torture isn't necessarily what I'd call torture. I think there is room for harsh tactics in extreme cases. The problem is that it is too easy to call a non-extreme case an extreme case. You almost need an advisory board involving the president and others that can act quickly enough to be effective. I won't say I have all the answers there, but this comment is already too long. :)
Posted by Cameron at December 6, 2008 11:03 AMHi Cameron,
First, let me start by saying that European and American people have a *lot* of things in common. There are some huge differences, but still, we are both part of the "Western" world, and are fundamentally more similar than different.
My main problem with the war in Iraq is that it was started based on evidences that turned to be all false. I do not believe this is a major f*** up from the US intel' ... for various reasons, the war had already been decided and then "evidences" were made out of nothing. No mass destruction weapon was ever found.
Bottom line, this useless war is a disaster for the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi and the thousands of US people who lost their life or a relative.
About the financial crisis, it started with the subprime crisis. Unlike the war in Iraq, Bush cannot be blamed for having starting it, but as the president in charge, i believe he can be blamed for having failed to regulate the economy and prevent the crisis.
Guantanamo ...
What i really love about US is the Bill of Rights.
These are simple principles that guarantee fundamental rights to everyone, and I do believe any country in the world could include it in their consitution. Well, no, not everyone :-( only US citizens, in the US.
I am really pissed that the most powerful country in the world, which has great values, sometimes does not feel the need to apply its principles to himself.
Anyway, i am still glad the First Amendment is respected on your blog :-)
Posted by Gilles at December 6, 2008 11:50 AMGilles,
I didn't mean to imply Americans were completely different different from Europeans and I most certainly agree that both sides are very similar in many areas. I stated that one difference because it is a significant factor when assessing politics.
And yes, I welcome differing opinions as long as they are civil and have some intelligence behind them - which yours always are. You also make me hungry for a warm baguette and some good Pyrinees cheese. :)
Anyway, I see your point about the Iraq war, but I don't believe it is useless. It is tragic the lives that have been lost and that it could have been fought much more efficiently, but I would dare say that a free and respected democracy in the Middle East (if Iraq can achieve that status) is worth some suffering and loss.
Back on Guantanamo, I think we mostly agree and I think the "enemy combatants" have a right to hear the charges against them and get a relatively speedy trial.
Posted by Cameron at December 7, 2008 3:05 PMGilles,
I was just thinking about wiretaps and stuff, and like I mentioned earlier, I think the biggest problem comes in that it's too easy to cross the line and do an extreme security measure in a case that doesn't deserve it. For cases where that happens, I think there needs to be some punishment to the agencies initiating those measures. For instance, there was a muslim lawyer in the Oregon area a while back who was wire-tapped and accused and who's reputation was destroyed, but who was ultimately deemed innocent. There should be penalties placed against whoever gave authority to wiretap that lawyer.
I read an article a few weeks ago that had a similar viewpoint. While Bush has had his failings, not everything he's done has been a failure. Lincoln had dismal approval ratings and was later hailed a hero. Public approval is a fickle thing, and in the end, rude and disrespectful treatment of our president says more about us than him.
Posted by dan at December 5, 2008 5:53 PM