September 12, 2003
Ok, so there's a girl I think I like. Ladies, feel free to comment. I spent the evening with a girl last night, and she said it's easy to see if a girl likes a guy; that she can tell right away by looking at her eyes. That didn't help me at all and I refused to believe her. It's all part of a massive conspiracy theory to trick guys. Isn't it? Hah, I caught you all!Actually, she did mention that girls aren't always honest -- that they'll do one thing and mean the opposite. That I knew, but I still don't know when they're doing it.So anyway, let me tell you about this one. I'll call her Katie, which isn't her name, but I figure there's a several hundred Katies in Utah, so it's a good disguise. Although, if either of the girls sees this post, they'll know in an instant who they are. Anyway, Katie has a twin sister who I tried to date back in Spring of 2002. It didn't work out , but I have to mention that before I asked her out, and I was trying to decide which twin to ask out, I made the comment to my friend that by the end of it, neither sister would talk to me. I was right. The one I didn't ask out, Katie, wouldn't even look at me. I have to give credit to Katie's sister, we'll call her Jenny (which isn't even close to her real name), because she totally threw me for a loop. One time, our singles ward (for you non-mormons, that's an entire church congregation made up of just young single adults), met up for a closing social. Some people convinced her to lipsink, which was fun to watch, until she started lipsinking to the song Kiss Me by Six Pence None the Richer. When she started singing the chorus, she came over (I was sitting on the front row with some other girls), grabbed my hand, and pulled me up front to sing the chorus with her and dance. Ok, girls, never do that to a guy. It's mean. I was petrified, but tried to move my legs and not look at anyone (I don't like dancing and I don't like being the center of attention). Anyway, along with her friendliness, I thought that was a pretty sure sign she liked me. Right? Wrong. We went out another time, and then she did a 180, and seemed to want absolutely nothing to do with me. Why? I'm not sure. Girls.But anyway, they (Katie and Jenny) left for the summer and that was the end of that. But they both came back. We were more like friendly acquaintances at that point -- where you say "Hi," or "Hey" or something like that. Jenny managed to embarrass me a bit another time in front of a bunch of peers, but I didn't really have any feelings for her anymore, so I didn't think much of it. I saw a bit more of Katie, since she worked with my roommate on the church activities committee, but we certainly weren't anything special. I was busy going out with other girls and such, until I went on a date in November that frustated me to no end. I decided that for an undefined amount of time, I was going on a leave of absence from the dating world. Funny thing though -- during my no-dating period, which was roughly 3 months, I went out with five different girls. One of those was Katie. I didn't have much desire to date, but that afternoon my brother called me and told me he had a couple tickets to a special Christmas dinner that night which were about $75 a piece. He said he wasn't gonna use them and that I needed to find a date.I had no idea who I could ask, since I didn't want to date anyway. Plus, it was the Saturday before finals started, so everyone was busy studying like crazy. I called one girl, but she couldn't go, so I called Katie, for the heck of it. Besides, I had always thought she was pretty cool. This is how the paraphrased conversation went:
"Hi Katie, ...blah blah blah... I have a couple tickets to a thing tonight. I just found out about it today, so I'm sorry for the short notice, but would you like to go?""Cameron, I'd love to, but I've got a study session from 6:00 till midnight tonight.""Ok.""But I'd really like to go.""Ok.""But I have this study session I have to go to.""Ok.""No, I really do want to go. I have an idea. I'll call the girl who's in charge of the whole thing and find out what's going on, then I'll call you back.""Ok, bye."**** We hang up. About 10-15 minutes pass. ****"Hi, Cameron?""Oh, Hi Katie.""I'm gonna go.""Ok.""Is that Ok? Can I still go? You haven't found someone else have you?""Sure. No. You're fine""Ok.""Ok. Good, you should wear something nice, like a dress.""Ok. How about the dress I wore for the Fall Ball (A dance we all went to)?""Sure.""Ok.""Ok. I'll pick you up around 5:30""Ok.""Ok. Bye.""Bye."**** We hang up ****And that is about how the conversation went. We had a good time, and she was pretty talkative, which was good. I had a good time. And after that, she seemed to come over to visit me a few times, making an effort to get me to ask her out again. That's how it seemed to me, but the timing was off and I didn't want to date, so I never asked her out again. But we've been friends.Well, we're close to the present now. I went to Asia a week ago, and her sister, Jenny, happens to be over in Korea serving a mission. So I sent Katie an email telling her about my hopes to visit her sister, though it would likely be impossible, since Korea is still a big piece of land, and I had no real idea where Jenny was. Katie, who had been gone all summer in Connecticut, wrote me back and over several messages, was able to give me lots of info for Jenny. Then, finishing her work in CT., Jenny returned to Utah. She called me up one day and asked if she could bring some stuff by to give to her sister. That was certainly fine with me, so we made plans for her to come visit my new place. She ended the call with something like "Cameron, I'm excited to see you." That's a good sign isn't it? She came over, but with several family members, and we never really got the opportunity to talk or anything. I gave her a hug, and she left. I was a little bummed I didn't get to talk to her, but I figured there'd be other opportunities. Anyway, I went to Asia, and was able to meet up with Jenny. That was actually pretty cool. She too gave me some stuff to take to her sister back in Utah. I've now been trying to meet up with Katie for the past week to give her the stuff, but Katie's been really busy. She did call me last night though and says she is going to come over tomorrow. So that's cool. The only problem is that I think she's coming with a friend or something, so I won't have a good opportunity to talk to her. I want to go out with her again, but I'm now not sure of anything that girls do, and so I'm not sure if she wants to date. I would think so, but I'm just a dumb guy. Help.
Posted by charr at 9:18 AM
Glad to see you are back!
I think Katie has moved into Friends Mode with you - the bringing over friends and family, not having time to come over. If she was really itching to start dating you, she would let nothing stand in the way of a little Togetherness Time, alone at your apartment.
I think next time you have the opportunity to talk, maybe over lunch/dinner, say that you are looking to get into a serious relationship/to date someone steadily. See if she mentions wanting someone to date seriously, also. Ask her if she's dating anyone/has a boyfriend. Tell her you aren't seeing anyone, either. Look at her meaningfully.
If she is interested in dating you right now, she should look very happy to hear this! If she seems ho-hum about it, she is probably daydreaming about someone else....
First things first. Breathe. And again.One thing that guys tend to forget is this. Just like you, we have other people we're interested in and/or are dating. One day, things may be going good with a certain guy, the next it's not. As we all know, you can be digging into someone one day, and not the next for various reasons. Some may call this fickle, but that's something completely different. I consider a person to be fickle if you remove certain variables (take for instance, is the other person being inconstant? If they are, you're not being fickle, you're being smart to bolt).Next. Girls typically don't like their sisters, friends or roommates to be their immediate competition. Talking about one to the other may be causing them to get frustrated. It's also giving one of two signals. 1- you consider them to be your friends that you occasionally take out. 2- You want to date both but can't make up your mind. You're giving them some mixed signals which could be causing the trouble. Pick one, stick with it, and try really hard not to bring up the subject of the other. Here is what I suggest. Ask Katie out. Then keep asking her out if things go good, even if there are some mixed signals. We have good days and bad days just like guys do. Reading our minds is impossible, so don't try. Just make sure you don't give her mixed signals and hopefully she'll stop doing it too. If the overall reaction is good, keep with it. That's my advice anyway.
Hee hee. This is fun.Ellen. I sorta agree with you here, that if she were really interested, then she'd come over alone, but she has had some legitimate excuses for coming by with others. I live 20-30 minutes away, so it's a bit of a struggle for her to come up to my house. Also, like you mentioned, I'd like to take her out to lunch or dinner and talk with her, but I don't think it's kosher to ask a girl if she's dating someone. I must find out the secret code for asking that. I think just asking her out might give me some information. I would like to know though, if she was available, and how often she dreamt about me ;).Mel, I agree about the whole sisters/roommates thing. It's not something I try to do, but turns into one of those regrets if I'm interested in someone and never do anything. Besides, I think there's been enough time in between that she doesn't think I'm playing her. Besides, it was she that seemed to act all interested. But as you say, I think I should try to ask her out and see what happens.
My general rule of thumb if I like a girl is to keep asking her out until one of two things happen.1) She does something to indicate she's not interested.
2) I decide I'm not interested.I still try to read the signals and all, but if she keeps saying yes when I ask her out and we have a good time, I enjoy the time we spend together.
Yeah, that's what I usually end up doing, but I'd really like to know if she wants to date or not. I've had girls say yes even though they don't want to go out and that's really annoying.
It can be annoying, but it will also show them the value of a polite but firm no. Some girls think they're being nice by saying yes to a guy they don't like, when in reality they're leading him on unnecessarily. If they would just say they weren't interested, most guys would be fine with it.
Gosh, I feel so old and married. :(Hi Cameron! My first-impression thoughts while reading your post: Be aggressive. Chicks love that. (Well, I did when I dated). Then the girl knows exactly where you're coming from, that you are interested in DATING her, not just being friends. So, I'd say ask her out on a date. It's tempting to just keep seeing how she acts or what she says in "friend mode" but go for the big-time and ask her out and be all manly and macho and in control of the situation.Secondly, the sister thing. My sister was so much younger than me that boy-competition was never an issue. But I'm wondering if that's what is making this all messy for you.Good luck and I can't wait to read more love and romance and dating stuff from you. :)
Kristine, I don't really think the sister thing has much to do with things since it was a while ago. But then again, just saying the word "twins" seems to conjure up all sorts of problems. I did like what you said about waiting around to see how she acts. That completely describes me -- I wait around for a long time before I ask out a girl to try to understand what she's thinking. Silly me, I should know that's impossible for a guy to know. :)Anyway, she came over yesterday with another sister, and she sorta acted like in friends mode. However, she sorta seemed to act like she might be interested if I were to do something. I can understand that since she made an effort before and I didn't really do anything. As she was leaving, I said we should hook up some time, and she responded positively, telling me to call her if I'm down in her area. I might have to make a trip. :)